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DragonFly kernel List (threaded) for 2005-04
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Re: Stable tag will be slipped Sunday and release engineering will begin Monday

From: Peter Schuller <peter.schuller@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 00:41:16 +0200

> 'Funny you should mention that'....
> For 'production' servers, it is simply not an issue.


> These will bring in a host of 'sputniks', including a few Xlibs, but 
> only a few.
> There may be perl or python versioning issues. Easily handled.
> *Usually built from the developer's generic tarballs, not ports or pkgsrc.

Why not use the packages? Whatever the reasons - that's a problem with the
package system. That's the point - one should be able to use the packages
even for things like that.

Also, the above profile doesn't fit all "production servers". A production
server may also include servers that provide general shell environments,
where a vast number of applications not found in base is expected among

> >If I am wrong and there is some magical way of upgrading pkgsrc - please 
> >enlighten me :)
> >
> No magic.  Simplicity.

Well; honestly you haven't exactly shown why pkgsrc is easy to upgrade. Rather
told me to not even use it and compile from upstream source instead...

> Just 'coz F/OSS is free and available doesn't mean you have to load (and 
> maintain) all of it.

Not all of it. I mean sure; running a DNS server PERIOD is fine; running
a web server PERIOD is fine; but a general-purpose server is starting to
approach a desktop situation.

> Desktop are a whole 'nuther story, but if setting up and maintaining a 
> BSD or Linux desktop is too onerous, buy a Mini-Mac or an eCS license.

I don't get this attitude. If the package system is broken enough that you
can't do a complete upgrade without loosing days of effective uptime - the
problem is with the user who should install mac/whatever, and not the packaging
system? If I can choose between a system that lets me do regular complete
updates in about 5 minutes, and a system which requires a lot more real time,
a lot more administrative time, and a lot more cpu time - I will choose
the former, all other things being equal.

Now, all other things *aren't* equal (or I'd be using Debian instead of BSD),
but the point is that there are flaws in the package systems of the current
BSDs. They are not perfect. And wanting to improve something that is not perfect
is usually considered a good thing...

/ Peter Schuller, InfiDyne Technologies HB

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